The directors cut of Gods & Generals came out in late May of this year, and just so you are fully informed as you read this post…I have not seen the director’s cut of the movies. With that being said it is not surprising that some people are not happy with this version…allow me to explain. Over at the Lost Cause bastion of The Southern War Room, commenter “Roy” talked about his inability to get through the movie (1st DVD release) with out chocking up.
However since his post of Feb. 26, 2011 “Roy” has seen the Director’s Cut and is not pleased…
You will notice that in his first sentence he claims that fellow southerners should not buy the new edition because the this new edition has been ruined from a southern point of view. What does this mean…a southern point of view? I think it is obvious that the movie no longer conforms the Lost Cause Tradition that is so prevalent on websites like the Southern War Room. Since I have not seen this the Director’s cut so I will hold off on commenting on the rest of “Roy’s” review of the film. But I you have seen the movie and would like to comment on “Roy’s” review please leave a comment.
Imagine that, a film that has John Wilkes Booth “portrayed in an extremely negative light.”
Self-aware much, Roy?
Is it wrong of me to choke up when I think of the brave men of the Confederacy who gave their all to defend their lands against an invading army? Why do you run this site in the first place? Why do you not focus your attention on a subject that enlightens and fulfills you instead of attempting to debase those of us that honor our Confederate heritage? If you were to study the true cause of the war, not what you were taught from a junior high primer, you would understand that it was a just cause, similar to what we are seeing today….A government that is attempting to stifle individuality, control every aspect of our lives and make us subjects instead of citizens. We are in a different era, of course, but drive down the street without your seat belt, take a picture of a cop on the street, or go through an airport. The situations are different but the issue is the same. Government control is the same in any era, and must not be tolerated.
Southerners! How DARE they be allowed to have a point of view! Everyone should have YOUR point of view, huh, Corey?
Connie,
It is not that they have a point of view, but how quickly they turn on those they once held in such high esteem.
Corey, the drop of esteem for the director, and the re-released film, didn’t just come out of nowhere. It happened in response to something — Ron Maxwell’s knuckling under to the forces of PC. It happened in response to the release of a new version of the film that doesn’t just bear little resemblence to the original, but which delivers a message that’s at odds with the original release. How can you ignore so obvious a factor, just to make a point on your blog? Don’t tell me you didn’t notice what the drop in esteem was in response to.
Of course I know what it is from and I mentioned it in the main post. The drop in the directors popularity is due to the fact the Lost Causers feel that the re-release does not tow the lost cause mantra…therefore the movies is shit and will catch the eire of all lost causers and neo-confederates. I really want to know what PC preasure the director came under…it would be great to hear your conspiracy theory on that one Connie…
Corey, there are no “lost causers” and no “neoConfederates.” Those are slander terms made and used by small minds.
Are you going to tell me you don’t remember how the film was savaged by PC critics when it was first released? Maxwell is a movie director. If the “right” people take a notion, they can keep him from ever working in Hollywood again.
Considering the hedonistic and atheistic nature of the left coast now, I suspect this new release was designed only partly to cater to Confederacy-haters. It’s probably tailored more to appease for Christian-haters.
Yes, I remember his critics…and I was one…
Please see Neil’s comment below…it goes far in explaining why I use “Lost Cause Traditionalist”, “Lost Causer” and “Neo-Confederate”….
Oh, and thanks for the link to the Southern War Room forum. I joined!
Mark,
It’s only wrong when one tries to ascribe motives, reasons, and historical facts that do not exist to those soldiers to fulfill a modern, 21st century, revisionist agenda.
Connie,
Enjoy your time on the Southern War Room forum. Hope it is all that you wish it to be.
Sincerely,
Neil
Mark, may I ask who is trying to ascribe motives, reasons and historical facts to those soldiers to fulfill a modern, 21st century, revisionist agenda? What motives, reasons and historical facts that do not exist are they trying to ascribe? And what is the modern, 21st century, revisionist agenda?
Miss Chastain,
Any attempt to disguise the cause of the American Civil War comes immediately to mind. And I am of the opinion, my own, of course, that the national leadership of the SCV and many of the “Confederate” forums that I have observed, are determined to rewrite history, at the expense of its accuracy, to push their own agenda that the Civil War had nothing to do with the institution of slavery.
Again, in my own opinion.
Sincerely,
Neil
Neil,
Well said, and I would agree with your opinion.
Thanks for taking Connie on…it just wears me out
I didn’t see where you identified motives, reasons and historical facts that do not exist ascribed to those soldiers.
As for the “disguise,” … If A, B, C and D are causes of the war and only A is acknowledged in the victor-pablum, if, in fact, A has been crammed down our throats as the “only” cause, for generations, and somebody comes along and says, “B was a cause,” and someone says, “So was C” and someone else says, “Don’t forget about D,” that is NOT attempting to disguise the cause of the war.
I’ve run across the claim “the war had nothing to do with slavery” a few times, but not many. Most such claims mean “slavery wasn’t the only cause” and usually further reading about the claim substantiates this.
Oops, my last comment should have been addressed to Neil.
Aside from the John Wilkes Booth comment, there are several comments that are simply hate filled throughout that site. I noticed one where a member was concerned that they would be considered a “hate group, which we aren’t”! If that isn’t a hate group, then the KKK, the Black Panthers and the Skinheads are not either.
I am not saying that people should not be proud of their Confederate ancestors but apparently they think that they can only honor their ancestors by hating Union soldiers and their descendants. I noticed that there were several stories telling of Union Army atrocities that had very little if any basis in fact and those with any truth to them were embellished to the point of being ridiculous.
I came away with the impression that this group (Southern War Room) is a group of people that are filled with hate for hate’s sake. Their ideas that the entire Union Army was a band of vicious, blood-thirsty, terrorists while the Confederate Army was filled with chivalrous, honorable, noble, and brave men shows them to be what they truly are, ignorant.
Mr. Bridgeman, it looks like there are quite a few posts and members there. Could you direct me to some specific examples of hate-filled comments? It probably would also help if you’d give me your concept of hate. A lot of misunderstanding can occur because people have a different concept of words and phrases.
My blog is 180 Degrees True South, found here: http://one80dts.blogspot.com/ Perhaps you’ll have a look there and tell me if you find any hate…
Connie
Another thing, Mr. Bridgeman, “…their ideas that the entire Union Army was a band of vicious, blood-thirsty terrorists while the Confederate Army was filled with chivalrous, honorable, noble, and brave men…” is probably backlash from having the opposite notion — which is equally untrue — crammed down the nation’s throat for the past 150 years.
Miss Chastain,
If I may quote from a speech that I have read.
“…When the dark and vengeful spirit of slavery, always ambitious, preferring to rule in hell than to serve in heaven, fired the Southern heart and stirred all the malign elements of discord, when our great Republic, the hope of freedom and self-government throughout the world, had reached the point of supreme peril, when the Union of these states was torn and rent asunder at the center, and the armies of a gigantic rebellion came forth with broad blades and bloody hands to destroy the very foundations of American society, the unknown braves who flung themselves into the yawning chasm, where cannon roared and bulles whistled, fought and fell. They died for their country.
We are sometimes asked, in the name of partiotism, to forget the merits of this fearful struggle, and to remember with equal admiration those who struck at the nation’s life and those who struck to save it, those who fought for slavery and those who fought for liberty and justice.
I am no minister of malice. I would not strike the fallen. I would not repel the repentatn; but may my “right hand forget her cunning and my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth,” if I forget the difference between the parties to that terrible, protracted, and bloody conflict.
If we ought to forget a war which has filled our land with widows and orphans; which has made stumps of men of the vey flower of our youth; which has sent them on the journey of life armless, legless, maimed and mutilated; which has piled up a debt heavier than a mountain of gold, swept uncounted thousands of men into bloody graves and planted agony at a million hearthstones–I say, if this war is to be forgotten, I ask, in the name of all things sacred, what shall men remember?
The essence and significance of our devotions here to-day are not to be found in the fact that the men whose remains fill these graves were brave in battle. If we met simply to show our sense of bravery, we should find enough on both sides to kindle admiration. In the raging storm of fire and blood, in the fierce torrent of shot and shell, of sword and bayonet, whether on foot or on horse, unflinching courage marked the rebel not less than the loyal soldier.
But we are not here to applaud manly courage, save as it has been displayed in a noble cause. We must never forget that victory to the rebellion meant death to the republic. We must never forget that the loyal soldiers wo rest beneath this sod flung themselves between the nation and the nation’s destroyers. If today we have a country not boiling in an agony of blood, like France, ifnow we have a united country, no longer cursed by the hell-black system of human bondage, if the American name is no longer a by-word and a hissing to a mocking earth, if the star-spangled banner foats only over free American citizens in every quarter of the land, and our country has before it a long and glorious career of justice, liberty, and civilization, we are indebted to the unselfish devotion of the noble army who rest in these honored graves all around us.”
Frederick Douglass, May 30, 1871, speech at the Arlington National Cemetery, Virginia.
In my own personal view, Mr. Douglass got it righ above and got it right when he also said:
“There was a right side and a wrong side in the late war, which no sentiment ought to cause us to forget, and while to-day we should have malice toward none, and charity toward all, it is no part of our duty to confound right with wrong.”
Sincerely,
Neil
Well, Mr. Hamilton, you may quote anything you like and you may agree with whatever you wish to agree with. I think there are other ways of seeing things — Mr. Douglas’s view is certainly not the only way. And there’s nothing about posting it here that refutes my statement about what’s been crammed down the nation’s throat…
Ms Chastain, I am not going to play your little game where anything I point out you will rebut by saying that the remark is justified by 150 years of revisionist history. If you want to explain a comment, explain the remark by “Roy” where he complains that John Wilkes Booth was treated in a “negative light”. Booth was an assassin of a president of the United States, how should he be portrayed, as a hero? I went through a few threads and saw some openly obvious hate comments, if you were not totally biased, you would see them also. Please enjoy that room, I think you will fit right in. The only qualification is to hate anyone that wasn’t born in the original Confederate States.
Its funny how these people throw the term “politically correct” out there when the disagree with someone’s argument. They can’t refute the argument, so the just say the person’s being “politically correct” and move on to some other stupid point they want to make.
CONNIE loves doing this over and over and over and over again.
Charlie, I don’t know who the “these people” are that you”re talking about. However, as for myself, I only use the term PC or (politically correct or political correctness) when it is accurate and applies. It is accurate and applies in this case.
You never proved that anybody was pressured into making changes by the “politically Correct” police. You just threw it out there and thats what is sad about your arguments. You dont agree so you just say the other person is being “PC”
Well, the movie revision is politically correct, so what conclusion do YOU draw?
Connie,
Just because you don’t agree with the history being shown does not make it PC…
Corey, the original version was not PC. This one is. Do you even know what PC is?
But what if the version you call PC is the correct history. I know what PC is and that is why I am debating this with you. You claim the mainstream history of the war as PC because you believe the lost cause version of the history. So this PC version according to you is the one held up by the historical evidence.
No, Corey. Political correctness requires demonization of the South, and deification of the North. The first release of this film didn’t do that; this extended director’s cut apparently does. Now all the Hollywood leftists and progressives from coast to coast can pat Maxwell on the head and say, “Good little director.”
PC does not mean you have to make the south look bad and make the North look good. It can be to you as simply saying that the south fought for slavery. You would claim that is a PC statement, while the historical record provides hills of documentation that that is not a PC statement!
It’s not a game, Mr. Bridgemen. The portrait of Confederate soldiers as the bad guys a the yanks as good has been the prevailing view, with very few exceptions, forced on America in academia and the popular culture for generations. If you want the truth, however, using historical sources, compare Lee’s foray into Pennsylvania to Sherman’s march through Georgia and South Carolina, to Sheridan’s devastation of the Shenandoah,
I would have to see the movie’s portrayal of Booth to know whether Roy’s assessment is correct and I don’t plan to see the revision.
Also, perhaps you’d better check the mirror often to see how quickly your nose is growing, because, no more than I’ve looked around over there, I already know that this — “The only qualification is to hate anyone that wasn’t born in the original Confederate States” — is a baldfaced lie.
Ms Chastain, I have studied the American Civil War / War Between The States for many years and I have yet to ever see a book or a site that disparaged the Confederate soldier in the least let alone like many of the posters in the Southern War Room write about Union soldiers. Before you list my statement as a “baldfaced lie” pick out any poster in that forum and research their posts. Of course you are incapable of an unbiased opinion but if you were able, you would find that every poster there has posted a comment that could be considered “hate speech” directed at people from North of the Mason-Dixon Line, some have posted many more than others.
Ms Chastain, I get the impression that until someone agrees to the idea that there were many divisions of Blacks serving in the Confederate Army as infantrymen because they loved the Southern way of life, complete with plantation & massa, that every last Confederate fought bravely and with chivalry to the bitter end, that every Union soldier was a ruthless cutthroat & rapist, and that slavery had nothing to do with the war, you will not respect their opinion.
Ma’am, you are extremely biased, your statement about John Wilkes Booth shows this quite well. The veterans of the war joined together after the war and became friends and countrymen again. How long are you going to hate people from the North? Hate groups like the Southern War Room reminds me of some words from The New Testament (2 Timothy : 3) That describes the last days… “There will be terrible times in the last days… They will brag and be proud..They will tear others down.. They will not obey their parents.. They will not be thankful or holy.. They won’t love others.. They will tell lies about others.. They will hate what is good.. They will think they are better than others.. They will love what pleases them instead of loving God.. They will act as though they are serving God but what they do will show that they have turned their back’s on God’s power.. Have nothing to do with those people”
Mr. Bridgeman, obviously, you and I have a wholly different concept of “disparage,” then. And it’s not just in history books that the South=bad, North=good has been crammed down our throats. It permeates the popular culture.
Since I just joined the Southern War Room, and I had to meet no such qualification (of hating anyone that wasn’t born in the original Confederate States), your claim is a baldfaced lie.
Your impression, that you describe in paragraph two of your comment, is mistaken. You can see my views on blacks serving in the Confederate Army here: http://one80dts.blogspot.com/2011/06/black-confederates-controversy.html
Now, from what was your impression formed that I will not respect the opinion of someone else unless they agree that blacks loved the Southern way of life, complete with plantation & massa? Kindly point to anything I have ever, ever, ever written that would give such an impression. Otherwise, it is an “impression” you have made up out of whole cloth.
Obviously, I believe Confederates fought with more bravery and chivalry than damnyankee soldiers did, but not every last one. There was cowardice, indifference and betrayal on both sides. The difference is that Confederates were fighting to protect their homes, families, communities and territory, and yankees were fighting to destroy them.
You may also point to where I have ever claimed every Union soldier was a ruthless cutthroat and rapist. I only claim that about the ones who WERE ruthless cutthroats and rapists (and thieves and despoilers).
Are you always so extreme in your untrue and certainly unprovable “impressions”?
What statement do you imagine I made about Booth? I didn’t say ANYTHING about him. You may copy and paste what you THINK I said about him, but I didn’t mention him at all. I was talking about (1) the statement made by the poster identified as Roy, and (2) the new director’s cut of the movie, Gods and Generals.
Yes, I’m biased. So are you. Most people are. We’re just not all biased in the same way about the same thing. I will say this — your biases are not superior to anyone else’s, mine included.
I don’t hate people from the north. I don’t hate anybody. I make a very clear distinction between northerners and yankees — but I don’t even hate yankees. What I hate is the yankee mentality.
From my observation there so far, the Southern War Room is not a hate group, and it would be interesting to know your motive for making such a claim. Not your reason, you can misconstrue anything to be a reason. I’m talking motive. BTW, the misapplication of Scripture is a dangerous game, and that the passage from 2nd Timothy is written for you, too.
Ms Chastain, I do not need to “cut & paste” quotations to see where you are coming from. You are pretty transparent when it comes to that. You are a solid “Lost Causer” whose basic ideals can be found on many of those hate group sites such as Southern War Room. Their agenda is basically what I wrote before about wanting it to be recognized as fact that there were divisions of Black Confederate infantrymen, etc. You continue to claim that “south=bad & north=good” has been “crammed down our throats” for so many years, this is ridiculous. As I said before, I have studied the war for years and haven’t found this to be the case. Most history books show the Confederate soldier in a very good light and their commanders also. It is that “slavery thing” that most often gets the bad press. Much like many history books don’t show the average German soldier in WWII in a bad light but doesn’t doesn’t speak well of “The Final Solution” the Nazis pushed. You like to play the “innocent victim card” much like another group that wants reparations for something from 150 years ago.
You and your fellow Lost Causers continue to carry this hatred as if the war is merely in a lull right now. Is it ever going to be over for you? Why fight so hard to keep the fires of hatred alive when the men that actually fought the war laid down their arms and became friends afterwards? I see that there are many Lost Causers again wanting to secede from the Union. Go see your fellow forum member, the lisping “Palmetto Patriot” on YouTube with his anti-American rantings. He also sees John Wilkes Booth as a hero so Roy isn’t alone on that one. The “Palmetto Patriot”, if you read back far enough in the threads, attempted to join the U.S. military at one time but was rejected so now they along with “The Empire” (as he refers to the United States of America) are the evil in the world. Marauding, killing, raping, and terrorizing the rest of the world like the damnyankees (as you call northern people) did 150 years ago. The amount of hate for America that he displays makes me honestly feel that he would side with the Taliban or Al-Qaeda to fight against the U.S. military under the “The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend” theory.
I certainly hope that you are not passing this hatred along to your children or grandchildren. Teaching them about your Southern heritage is fine but this blind hatred is not. The war was fought 150 years ago and is over, all partisipants are dead. The people you are heaping your hatred on where not there, they were not alive then, don’t take it out on them. Quit the hating.
Neil & CB,
It is useless to argue with Connie Ward…she is hell bent on having the history of the war her way to match here sense of heritage…whatever that may be or truely is. She has a very limited understanding of the war and the time period…you are free to continue beating your head against the wall here on TBoMK as long as you like.
Thank you, I will take your advice on this.
Corey,
I don’t consider my exchange of posts with Miss Ward an argument, merely an exchange of points-of-view. That Miss Ward is as set in her views as I am mine, should come as no surprise to anyone here, her forum, or on any other.
We both got those points-of-view honest, by our own research, reading and debating. I’m satisfied with mine, as I am sure Miss Ward is satisfied with hers. Really, when you think about it, that’s the only person you need convince.
Until our next post,
Neil
How about you quit the lying? I’m not hating, but you are lying, bigtime. As I’ve already made clear, I don’t hate northerners. I don’t hate anybody. I make a very clear distinction between northerners and yankees — but I don’t even hate yankees. What I hate is the yankee mentality. Is that too fine a distinction for you?
I’m not going to try to be friends with people who lie about me, my region and my heritage. If you want the argument to stop, the problem is not people like Palmetto Patriot, who criticizes the excesses of the American Empire/government, and the behavior of yankees who move south and make no secret of their hatred for us. His disapproval of government excesses that violate Constitutional boundaries and get people killed by the tens of thousands are shared by many, both left and right, who are not Southern nationalists.
The problem is people like you, whose bigotry assumes that because Southerners share some beliefs, we share them all — we’re mental clones. Perhaps I need to point out to you, I am not Palmetto Patriot (I agree with him about some things and disagree about others) or Roy (who seems like a nice fellow so far) so your bringing him up here is a display of bigotry.
I don’t care how much you’ve studied. Your view is not everyone’s view, your experience is not everyone’s experience, your knowledge is not everyone’s. I know what I know, Mr. Bridgeman. What you’ve “studied” does NOT negate what I know by my study, observation and experience. Don’t give me the phony distinction of history books showing the Confederate soldier in a good light. That wasn’t my argument was it? I said NORTH and SOUTH, not North and Confederate soldier. It is the totality of the South that gets trashed, including Confederate soldiers, particularly in the popular culture.
You want to know what hate is, sir? It’s claiming that there is similarity between the Confederacy and the Third Reich. That’s not only hate — it’s a lie. The reason we still “fight” the war is because we still have people warring against us, usually with words but very often using the popular culture as a weapon, using business and industry as a weapon, and using the school system as a weapon to indoctrinate Southern children to hate themselves, their history, heritage and culture. That’s where the real hatred lies, and you bet I’m going to fight it.
Let not your heart be troubled, Mr. Bridgeman. I’m not passing hatred along to anyone. Flinging the H-word, as you’re doing, is similar to flinging the R-word; Describing someone by those terms has little basis in reality; the point of using them is just to shut up people you disagree with.
Ms.Chastain, I am taking Corey’s advice and discontinuing this discussion. Sorry that I disturbed your fantasy world by shining the light of truth into it there for a moment, you obviously cannot stand to be exposed to it. I would suggest that you seek counseling for your paranoid delusions that people from the north hate people from the south. 999 people out of 1,000 in the north have absolutely no problem with folks from the south. If you don’t believe me, search the internet to find some “hate groups” filled with northerners like the Southern War Room and the plethora of other “Lost Causers” sites. You won’t find any. Have a nice life.
Mr. Bridgeman, I don’t have a fantasy world, and you are not the source and keeper of all truth. Speaking of delusions, perhaps you’re the one who needs counseling — you won’t find the claim that “people from the north hate people from the south” in anything I’ve posted here — however, some of them certainly do. Where’d you get your 999 out of 1,000 figure? I’d like a source for that verifiable by a third party, please. I don’t have to search the internet for “hate groups” to see hatred of Southerners. You can find it in blog threads and comment threads that follow news stories from one end of cyberspace to the other, but since most of them are anonymous, there is no way to know where the posters are from. You can also find it in the blogs, news stories and editorials themselves.
Miss Chastain,
I tend to favor Frederick Douglass’s view of the late war because of his close proximity to it and his involvement in its primary cause.
As for the PC version of the Civil War being “crammed down the throats” of present-day Americans, I would suggest that none of them have realized they have suffered such a dramatic event or they surely would have remembered such.
Until our next post,
Neil
Has Connie not watched Hollywood Movies such as “Glory” “Gone with the Wind” “Cold Mountain” “Dances with Wolves” “Birth of a Nation” ALL, I mean All of these movies show Union soldiers in a negitive light!
I have seen Gone With the Wind and a few scenes from Dances With Wolves. Haven’t seen any of the others. In any case, five movies are hardly the whole of the popular culture.
If you havn’t seen these movies then you are ignorant on the subject and shouldn’t comment on them like you know about Civil War and Hollywood perspectives.
Mr. Persinger,
Unless you simply enjoy argument for arguments sake, you’re spinning your wheels in the mud and dust sinking in deeper.
Sincerely,
Neil