I have been noticing some trends in the comments of our Southern Hertiage folks, so I thought I would pass them along to my readers and see what you thought and had to say about them.
SCV CIC Givens
From the CIC of the Sons of Confederate Veterans…
“-Joseph Goebbels : “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Mr. Speilberg, me thinks he’s talking to you about your Lincoln propaganda film.”
I just love it when the SCV leader quotes Nazi’s on a movie that has hardly begun to be filmed.
Recently Kevin at Civil War Memory challenged our friends over at Facebooks Southern Heritage Preservation Group the following…
“What I will offer Mr. Adams and the rest of this group is the opportunity to write a response to the specific claims made in this article that will be published on this blog. You can’t beat that. Historical interpretations are always in need of revision based on the gathering of additional sources or a counter-interpretation of existing evidence. This would be a wonderful opportunity to bring together the collective knowledge and wisdom of the entire group against their number one enemy. Best of all, they get to do it on this very blog. I look forward to reading and learning from their research on Silas.”
And please do entertain yourselves by reading the comment section on Kevin’s site regarding this challenge.
So I took it upon myself to send out this challenge directly to many of the usual suspects from the group on facebook and here is what I have recieved in response to that challenge…
From John Stones… “Take a hike Corey! I’ve graduated from wasting my time on petty revisionists that are obsessed with themselves and the lies they’ve told for so long that they believe themselves! Levin can write all he wants in CW Times. It’s a PC rag that I give little credibility – even less now that they give the likes of Levin the kind of coverage they have, LOL – Too bad he broke copyright laws – OUCH!”
Once again, it is easier to call the magazine a liberal rag than deal with history…nice move John. As for the comment about copyright laws…your guess is as good as mine…who knows with these people!
And from one of my all time favorites, Connie Ward/Chastain…
“I’m not interested in Silas Chandler specifically, or black Confederates in general, which I’ve made clear on my blog. Twice.”
And a quote from the comments on Kevin’s blog from good olde Carl Roden…
“Tell you what, I will play your little game….provided you offer me a carefully written, flawless interpretation of the service of one Pvt. Henry “Dad” Brown a drummer for Co. H 21st SC CSA under your “slaves not soldiers” argument…oh and spare me the whole “musicians are not soldiers” argument as I can site numerous examples of Union drummers who were decorated during the course of the war and not least of which I can provide the details that black musicians in the Confederate army were recognized soldiers and granted equal pay with their white counterparts in 1862.Well….. can you?”
Well this will prove to be a very interesting debate and I will keep you updated as things unfold.
You’re going to catch crap for posting the pictures again. lol.
One must be careful what one puts on Facebook!
true, true
Somebody send me a copy of the magazine and I’ll consider the challenge.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lost Causers would all pool their talent and write a book called “The World According to the Lost Causers”. There they could entertain us with their views of how things “really were” like southern slaves taking up arms shoulder to shoulder with their “massa” against the yankee hordes coming down trying to drag them kicking and screaming from their beloved life of bondage. How the slave women were spared the trouble of putting their children up for adoption by simply having them sold away from them.
Of course the stories about how the slave women would seduce their massa into having relations with them. How the field hands were actually masochists who would provoke the massa into whipping them and running off was just like a child playing “hide & seek” to them.
The prison camp at Andersonville was sort of like a Club Med for union soldiers. Anyone born north of the Mason-Dixon Line grew horns and a tail before their first birthday. There was never a recorded case of desertion from the glorious Confederate Army. John Wilkes Booth was a hero, not a deranged back-shooting coward.
Then there could be several personal stories that had been handed down generation to generation…”Yeah, me an my family ain’t never been able to amount to much cause Sherman an his bunch of yankee butchers done burnt down my great granddaddy’s barn here in south Louisiana on his March To The Sea.”
Mr. Bridgeman, Southern heritage advocates are not “Lost Causers” and what you’ve fabricated here is not “their views.”
Ms Chastain, I am afraid that the views that I posted are much closer to the actual views of the Lost Causers (or as you call them, Southern Heritage advocates) than you want to believe. Although you try your best to keep your site tidy, look at about any other pro-south site as well as YouTube that is rife with Lost Causers spouting off that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.
You won’t face it but your movement is full of people who are woefully lacking knowledge and education about the true history of the Civil War. Perhaps this is why the rest of the nation stereotypes southerners as backward fools.
Mr, Bridgeman, you may think you’re omniscient. You’re not. Your little flight into fancy here doesn’t tell us much about “lost causers” or Southern heritage advocates — but it does give us a interesting glimpse into your mindset.
It’s not a matter of what I “want to believe.” The fact is, there is a broad spectrum of knowledge, belief and understanding of history among Southern heritage advocates. When you attempt to put them all in the same box — make mental clones of them — you’re stereotyping for the purpose of being judgmental — actually, pre-judgmental.
Yes, Southerners have been stereotyped and ridiculed as uneducated, but it has nothing to do with what people know or don’t know about the war. (I daresay the rest of the country knows even less about it, and American history in general. I mean, Mika Brzezinsky picked Lincoln as her favorite founding father… )
The U.S. sent an army down here and to kill Southerners. They stole everything that wasn’t nailed down, burned whole towns, homes and farms, and laid the region waste. The government then installed a military dictatorship over the survivors of the war. Puppet governments put state treasures so deeply in debt it would take generations to get out, leaving the South with little or no capital for investments, jobs, schools, and kept Southerners in widespread poverty until almost WWII — and then ridiculed Southerners for being poor and uneducated. That’s like blaming and ridiculing a rape victim for being raped. Do you know who’s most likely to do that? A rapist.
“So I took it upon myself to send out this challenge directly to many of the usual suspects from the group on facebook and here is what I have recieved in response to that challenge…”
Why? Why did you take it upon yourself? Why is it any of your business what anybody in the SHPG thinks, says, does?
Ms. Chastain, how long are you Lost Cause Traditionalists going to use the war as a crutch for every problem in your life? I have actually heard much better arguements from Blacks that want reparations for their long dead ancestors being slaves. Now comparing yourselves to rape victims takes the cake. You are perpetuating ignorance with your Lost Cause agenda.
It is no wonder that the Southern Poverty Law Center lists many of the Lost Causer groups as hate groups. Look at some of the hate-filled rhetoric that they spout constantly.
Mr. Bridgman, please provide links to:
(1) Southern heritage advocates using the war as a crutch for every major problem in life. Identify the problems you’re speaking of and then show somebody using the war as a crutch for them. Be sure to provide substantiation of how widespread it is among that group.
(2) If you know of a different reason why the South was in poverty for several generations after the war, with only paltry amounts of tax revenue collected for education (or anything else) from a very poor populace, by all means, post it.
(3) Not comparing us to rape victims. Comparing the blamers and ridiculers to rapists… It’s an ANALOGY, which is defined as, “SIMILARITY in some respects BETWEEN THINGS that are OTHERWISE DISSIMILAR.” (Emphasis added.) If you’re unable to process it, try this: Blaming the victim is most likely to be done by the victimizer.
(3) The Southern Poverty Law Center is a very, very rich, extreme left-of-center organization that lies for money.
(4) Links to constant hate-filled rhetoric?
Thank you. Have a nice day.
Connie,
As for an answer to your #1: simply visit FB’s SHPG or VWBtSS!
As for #3: Can you provide proof of this statement?
“As for an answer to your #1: simply visit FB’s SHPG or VWBtSS!”
Not specific enough. I don’t know what VWBtSS is, but I visit the SHPG frequently and don’t see what Mr. Bridgeman is alleging. He needs to be specific.
“As for #3: Can you provide proof of this statement?”
http://americanpatrol.com/SPLC/ChurchofMorrisDees001100.html
Scroll down to “Attacking a Home-Town Icon”
http://niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.Panel%20Discussion:%20Nonprofit%20Organizations%20May%2099&stoplayout=true&print=true
http://one80dts.blogspot.com/2010/07/intelligence-and-poverty-stricken.html
#2. Because the CSA invested its wealth (plantation owners and all) into a new government a currency system that failed erasing their previous funds. That is the main reason for long sustained poverty. Places like Atlanta re-built rather quickly. I’ve noticed the poverty issue is another talking point for the SHPG
Robert, are you seriously saying that the official state government/treasury debt run up by carpetbagger governments had no effect? Seriously?
None as sustaining as having your entire credit vaporize overnight.
Oh, please, Robert. Being broke is not nearly as bad as being buried so deeply in official debt it will take generations to pay it off. Look at the USA’s 14 trillion debt. It will be our undoing.
Correct Connie, and like the current debt, the CSA created its own. Have a dixie day.
Ms Chastain, apparently you are totally incapable of unbiased thought since you can visit the SHPG and not see several examples of hate-filled rhetoric so there is no sense in me communicating with you any longer. It reminds me of the old saying “Never try to teach a pig to sing, it will never work and you only accomplish getting the pig upset.”
As far as answering (1 & 2) You have provided your own answer to that here many times, crying about the horrible yankees destroying the south. Have you seen pictures of Hiroshima & Nagasaki lately, they were flattened and they aren’t sitting around crying and teaching their children how terrible Americans are, they have gotten up off of their duffs and went to work. Get over it, all of the old Union soldiers are dead. BTW, look at Detroit MI if you think only the south has troubles.
(3) Refer to the above paragraph, quit bellyaching and teaching your hatred to your young so they might progress instead of wallowing in self-pity.
(4) Links to hate rhetoric: Do a yahoo search and you can find a plethora of them, I am sure you have enough sense to do that although I doubt that you can see one because of your bias against anyone from the North.
Mr. Bridgeman — Ms Chastain, apparently you are totally incapable of unbiased thought since you can visit the SHPG and not see several examples of hate-filled rhetoric so there is no sense in me communicating with you any longer.
Connie — Unbiased thought? Mr. Bridgeman, have you ever read any of your own posts?
Mr. Bridgeman — It reminds me of the old saying “Never try to teach a pig to sing, it will never work and you only accomplish getting the pig upset.”
Connie — Actually, I think that goes, “Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
Mr. Bridgeman — As far as answering (1 & 2) You have provided your own answer to that here many times, crying about the horrible yankees destroying the south.
Connie — Link please?
Mr. Bridgeman — Have you seen pictures of Hiroshima & Nagasaki lately, they were flattened and they aren’t sitting around crying and teaching their children how terrible Americans are, they have gotten up off of their duffs and went to work.
Connie — Well, they can hardly call Americans terrible when we gave them the money to rebuild, first with government aid and then allowing them to flood our markets with cheap “Made In Japan” goods.
Nobody I know is sitting around crying and teaching their children how terrible Americans are. There are some folks who think the federal government has violated its Constitutional boundaries and they don’t approve of the USA’s imperial military being stationed all over the world, but that’s not the same thing as “sitting around crying.”
Mr. Bridgeman — Get over it, all of the old Union soldiers are dead. BTW, look at Detroit MI if you think only the south has troubles.
Connie — You’re hallucinating if you think *I* think only the South has troubles. The entire freakin’ country is 14 trillion dollars in debt. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the Union’s war on the South was illegitimate, immoral and unconstitutional, and a lot of the USA’s troubles date from that war. Because it not only destroyed the CSA, it destroyed the original USA put it on the path to become a global empire, something the Founders never, ever intended.
Mr. Bridgeman — (3) Refer to the above paragraph, quit bellyaching and teaching your hatred to your young so they might progress instead of wallowing in self-pity.
Connie — 1. I don’t bellyache. My complaints are legitimate and warranted. 2. I don’t have any young and I don’t teach hatred to anybody. 3. I don’t wallow in self pity.
These mistaken accusations of yours are just attempts to deflect the truth that the Union waged an unjust and illegitimate war on the South.
Mr. Bridgeman — (4) Links to hate rhetoric: Do a yahoo search and you can find a plethora of them, I am sure you have enough sense to do that although I doubt that you can see one because of your bias against anyone from the North.
Connie — No, don’t try to back pedal now. You specifically identified the source of the hate rhetoric as Lost Causer hate groups. Moreover, you made the charge so the burden of proof is on you. Don’t tell me to do your work for you. If you can’t provide links to the Lost Causer groups you’re talking about and to their hate rhetoric, well, I’ll just have to conclude there aren’t any and you made it all up.
Ms Chastain, you are a member of the Southern Heritage Preservation Group, are you not? There is a good example of the hateful rhetoric. I am sure that you can’t see it but it is there, rant after rant about how they hate yankees. Play dumb if you wish, I don’t think you are really dumb, just blinded by your bigotry and hate of the Northern people.
I don’t hate the Northern people. For me, “yankee” is less a people and more an attitude. People who demonstrate a yankee attitude are yankees to me, regardless of where they’re from. There were a lot of good northern folks, even during the civil war.
No, there is not a lot of hateful rhetoric at the SHPG. No rants about how they hate yankees. You’re seeing something that ain’t there.
I give up. I have seen dozens of comments where members there have stated that they hate yankees. As I said, your bias has blinded you.
Mr. Bridgeman, just to humor you, I have the Southern Heritage Preservation Group’s FB page open in another window. Here’s a recap, as of 7:24 a.m. on Sunday, December 11, the first fifty (50) posts to show up, in the order they appear. Not a single hate-rant about yankees among them:
A post that says, “Surprised the camp tonight at the Christmas party with a new flag………. “(there’s a photo of the flag, a First National/Stars and Bars emblazoned with camp I.D.)
A post about the dangers of censorship (re: disputing claims that the right to display the Confederate flag is a defeat for racial tolerance).
A graphic of a battle flag with a poem superimposed over it.
A post reporting that the Southern Baptist Convention is considering removing “Southern” from their name.
Admonition to “Keep it flying!”
A post that says: “Officer on COPS just intoduced himself as a 5th Generation Floridian…is it bad if I couldn’t help but wonder if his family were Confederates?”
A satirical post (by me) of a letter to General Forrest notifying him he had been elected, in absentia, as Grand Wizard of the KKK, with instructions to issue orders that will (a) weaken the organization and (2) disband it.
Welcome to a new member.
A post about how soldiers viewed possible disgrace in battle.
Link to a poll about whether there is still unrest between North and South.
Quote from Sam Watkins lamenting the sacrifices of Southern soldiers being for nothing.
Link to a story about the 150th anniversery of the battle of Chusto-Talash, Indian Territory. Confederate victory
Post about income tax imposed in the Confederacy
A member’s personal remembrance of ancestors who served
Another member’s photo of an ancestor’s service record
Post of a photo of the 4th Texas Infantry in battle and the note, “Proud of these men”
A couple of quotes about the venality and arrogance of the British
A post by a new member with no message or image — presumably a Facebook glitch
A post by a member correcting a wrong assertion about his Cherokee Confederate ancestors.
Two more posts by the same new member with no message or image — presumably a Facebook glitch
Post by a member acknowledging that we the people of the states will never be free as long as the federal governement remains our master
Welcome to a new member
Link to the (Southern version) of the lyrics to “Root Hog, or Die”
Post about a book by Marx and Engles praising Lincoln
Prayer by the Group Chaplain
Link to story about guns of the CSS Pee Dee being recovered from river
Post announcing Flagging of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts scheduled for 12/10.
Link to a report about a judge censoring the U.S. Flag (Mr. Bridgman, the Southern heritage advocate who posted this line wrote, “Alot of good men, both Southern and northern fought and died under this flag,” (Old Glory).
Link to a website about the flags of the Confederacy
Link to a blog post about a young man going hunting with his grandfather
Post of a quote by Jefferson Davis about limitations placed on the federal government by the constitution or organic law
Notice that the Texas SCV is filing suit over the denial of their license plate by the DMV
One member’s photo of his Georgia SCV license plate
Photo of a First National flying in Bristol, Va
A post commemorating the anniversary of the Battle of Prairie Grove in Arkansas and Missouri
A post about the Mississippi state flag, hoping it doesn’t go the way of the Georgia flag back in 2001
Post to a YouTube video about flagging the VMFA
Post of a vintage postcard showing municipal buildings and Confederate memorial in Portsmouth, VA
Post about saving battlefield land associated with the Battle of Shiloh
Link to a website about Little Big Horn
Post from a member wishing everyone a Merry Christmas
Welcome to a new member
Link to a story about Byron Thomas moving battle flag from dorm window
Link to CW Memory about the dustup between Levin and Sebesta
Post about the History Channel program “Decoded”
Photo and letter about Edmund Ruffin
Welcome to new member
Post with quote from “The South Was Right”
Post about the Cherokee nation siding with the Confederacy
Post reminding members to check the SHPG page itself as relying on News Feed lets some posts fall through the cracks
Ms. Chastain, I have personally seen dozens of posts there where they have said that they hate yankees. What you have done is posted topics but comments made to topics there are often filled with vile hatred. I am not going to go there and cut and paste as it might get me accused of some invasion of privacy of the LCTs.
Mr. Bridgeman,
You don’t have to worry about that. Facebook’s “Statement of Rights and Responsibilities” says “When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means that you are allowing everyone, including people off of Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).”
The SHPG is a public group. Anything posted there can be copied and pasted elsewhere. Any member who doesn’t want their posts to be shared in that manner can set their privacy settings so that only certain people can see them, regardless of the group’s Public setting.
Is this the sort of thread you’d characterize as a “hating yankees” thread?
http://www.facebook.com/groups/shpg1/340280602653823/