A while back I noticed that, even though you almost can’t say the words, “black Confederate,” without someone righteously saying, “tell that to Nelson Winbush!,” virtually all of the information about Louis Napoleon Nelson that’s repeated as unquestioned fact is based on Winbush’s recollections of stories his grandfather told him when he (Winbush) was four or five years old, now nearly eighty years ago.
It seemed long past time to ask if, in fact, there is other, primary source material that documents Nelson’s wartime activities, and sure enough, there is. That needs to be part of any discussion of Nelson’s history, too.
I fully agree…and this seems to be the case with many of those that are claimed to be black confederate soldiers. Connie Chastain has apparently picked up on you post and tries to define soldier on her backsass site. Sadly for her, she is applying modern terms to someone who was not a soldier 150 years ago according to those of that time.
The pension application doesn’t directly disprove some of the claims made for Nelson — that he served in combat, that he was a chaplain (officially or unofficially, depending on the website), etc. But it also provides no support whatever for those claims — none, zero — and needs to be taken seriously, given that it was a sworn, legal document, signed by Nelson himself, and supported by sworn statements from witnesses who actually were with him during the war, like his former master, Private E. R. Oldham, and First Sergeant T. A. Walker of the same company.
If folks want to dissect the what Nelson’s pension application “means,” there are better questions to chew on — for example, why did Tennessee, like most former Confederate states, take thirty years to offer pensions to men like Nelson, after similar programs were established for former white soldiers (1921 and 1891, respectively). And why were former servants’ widows, like Florence Alberta Nelson, legislatively excluded from receiving pensions that had been awarded to soldiers’ widows since 1905?
You all done it again! Such courage in the face of die hard Confederates deserves something. Just What, well, nothing comes to mind.
Bless Your Heart, I do think you are lucky that no one has shot you in the face or gone to your kids school and shot up the place. I wonder when the haters and dividers get their due in this country. Ah well there is always next year.
That is wonderful to say Josephine/Connie given what has happened recently. Your days posting here are over.
I now fully believe Josephine is Connie Chastain/Ward since it was only earlier this morning that I passed on Andy’s post to Connie and Josephine only shows up when I notify Connie of posts either here or at one of the other “Yankee” blogger’s sites. May God have mercy on your soul for a comment like that Connie/Josephine.
What’s hilarious about that Connie claims that she can apply modern meanings to historical words.
AH-
“If folks want to dissect the what Nelson’s pension application “means,” there are better questions to chew on — for example, why did Tennessee, like most former Confederate states, take thirty years to offer pensions to men like Nelson, after similar programs were established for former white soldiers (1921 and 1891, respectively). And why were former servants’ widows, like Florence Alberta Nelson, legislatively excluded from receiving pensions that had been awarded to soldiers’ widows since 1905?”
It’s better than NOTHING…which is what the Federal government and Northern states gave to servants who labored in their armies.
Not surprised…
“After the war many USCT veterans struggled for recognition and had difficulty obtaining the pensions they were due. Since the USCT was considered an auxiliary force, its members were not considered veterans by the Department of War’s standards. The Federal government did not address the inequality until 1890, and many of the veterans did not receive service and disability pensions until the early 1900s.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Colored_Troops
After the Glory: The Struggles of Black Civil War Veterans by Donald R. Shaffer addresses the question of pensions for USCTs much better than wikipedia. He shows that 82,320 USCT veterans received pension checks from Washington and calculates that the amount paid by Washington to African American veterans and their dependents was in the ballpark of $313 million. Former USCTs were also eligible for admission into the National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers.
Jimmy thanks for the reply and the information.
Corey,
As Andy has provided documentation to support his views, might I suggest that you do the same when it comes to Connie Chastain? It is my own personal view that Josephine Southern is in no way Connie Chastain. I have had exchanges with Connie many times before and I am completely convinced there is no way, under any circumstances whatsoever, that she would advocate harming children or those she disagrees with. This is simply not her style. She confronts head-on, using her own name, and has no problem posting her views and disagreements. Whereas Josephine Southern is a completely different personality, and has her own posting style that cannot even come close to how Connie carries on a debate or discussion with others. You are right to ban Josephine, but I ask you to reconsider your claim that Josephine is Connie. Like I said, I disagree with much of her views concerning history and the Confederacy, but I have never found that she is without honor. Please reconsider.
I reckin peoeple in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones,but, the fact remains,the records of this “black confederate” shows that he was nothing but a loyal slave/servant.Is that something to be proud of ??
People can be proud of anything they want to. My intent in posting Nelson’s pension record was exactly as stated — to provide a primary source description of his wartime activities, and to make it (as it should have been all along) part of future discussions of his role in the conflict.
There is no compiled service record (CSR) for Nelson at NARA, which is where those materials are indexed. There are records for both the men who attested his pension application, his former master, Private E. R. Oldham, and First Sergeant T. A. Walker, both of Co. M.
I should have added — the absence of a CSR for Nelson does not definitively disprove claims made that he was appointed chaplain, or (according to some websites) held the rank of private, but it is a notable absence, given that records of other men who knew him at the time are present.
The absence of a CSR is, however, entirely consistent with Nelson’s own affidavit that he was a personal servant and cook to individual soldiers in that regiment.
A while back I noticed that, even though you almost can’t say the words, “black Confederate,” without someone righteously saying, “tell that to Nelson Winbush!,” virtually all of the information about Louis Napoleon Nelson that’s repeated as unquestioned fact is based on Winbush’s recollections of stories his grandfather told him when he (Winbush) was four or five years old, now nearly eighty years ago.
It seemed long past time to ask if, in fact, there is other, primary source material that documents Nelson’s wartime activities, and sure enough, there is. That needs to be part of any discussion of Nelson’s history, too.
I fully agree…and this seems to be the case with many of those that are claimed to be black confederate soldiers. Connie Chastain has apparently picked up on you post and tries to define soldier on her backsass site. Sadly for her, she is applying modern terms to someone who was not a soldier 150 years ago according to those of that time.
The pension application doesn’t directly disprove some of the claims made for Nelson — that he served in combat, that he was a chaplain (officially or unofficially, depending on the website), etc. But it also provides no support whatever for those claims — none, zero — and needs to be taken seriously, given that it was a sworn, legal document, signed by Nelson himself, and supported by sworn statements from witnesses who actually were with him during the war, like his former master, Private E. R. Oldham, and First Sergeant T. A. Walker of the same company.
If folks want to dissect the what Nelson’s pension application “means,” there are better questions to chew on — for example, why did Tennessee, like most former Confederate states, take thirty years to offer pensions to men like Nelson, after similar programs were established for former white soldiers (1921 and 1891, respectively). And why were former servants’ widows, like Florence Alberta Nelson, legislatively excluded from receiving pensions that had been awarded to soldiers’ widows since 1905?
You all done it again! Such courage in the face of die hard Confederates deserves something. Just What, well, nothing comes to mind.
Bless Your Heart, I do think you are lucky that no one has shot you in the face or gone to your kids school and shot up the place. I wonder when the haters and dividers get their due in this country. Ah well there is always next year.
That is wonderful to say Josephine/Connie given what has happened recently. Your days posting here are over.
I now fully believe Josephine is Connie Chastain/Ward since it was only earlier this morning that I passed on Andy’s post to Connie and Josephine only shows up when I notify Connie of posts either here or at one of the other “Yankee” blogger’s sites. May God have mercy on your soul for a comment like that Connie/Josephine.
What’s hilarious about that Connie claims that she can apply modern meanings to historical words.
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AH-
“If folks want to dissect the what Nelson’s pension application “means,” there are better questions to chew on — for example, why did Tennessee, like most former Confederate states, take thirty years to offer pensions to men like Nelson, after similar programs were established for former white soldiers (1921 and 1891, respectively). And why were former servants’ widows, like Florence Alberta Nelson, legislatively excluded from receiving pensions that had been awarded to soldiers’ widows since 1905?”
It’s better than NOTHING…which is what the Federal government and Northern states gave to servants who labored in their armies.
Not surprised…
“After the war many USCT veterans struggled for recognition and had difficulty obtaining the pensions they were due. Since the USCT was considered an auxiliary force, its members were not considered veterans by the Department of War’s standards. The Federal government did not address the inequality until 1890, and many of the veterans did not receive service and disability pensions until the early 1900s.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Colored_Troops
After the Glory: The Struggles of Black Civil War Veterans by Donald R. Shaffer addresses the question of pensions for USCTs much better than wikipedia. He shows that 82,320 USCT veterans received pension checks from Washington and calculates that the amount paid by Washington to African American veterans and their dependents was in the ballpark of $313 million. Former USCTs were also eligible for admission into the National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers.
Jimmy thanks for the reply and the information.
Corey,
As Andy has provided documentation to support his views, might I suggest that you do the same when it comes to Connie Chastain? It is my own personal view that Josephine Southern is in no way Connie Chastain. I have had exchanges with Connie many times before and I am completely convinced there is no way, under any circumstances whatsoever, that she would advocate harming children or those she disagrees with. This is simply not her style. She confronts head-on, using her own name, and has no problem posting her views and disagreements. Whereas Josephine Southern is a completely different personality, and has her own posting style that cannot even come close to how Connie carries on a debate or discussion with others. You are right to ban Josephine, but I ask you to reconsider your claim that Josephine is Connie. Like I said, I disagree with much of her views concerning history and the Confederacy, but I have never found that she is without honor. Please reconsider.
Sincerely,
Neil Hamilton
I reckin peoeple in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones,but, the fact remains,the records of this “black confederate” shows that he was nothing but a loyal slave/servant.Is that something to be proud of ??
People can be proud of anything they want to. My intent in posting Nelson’s pension record was exactly as stated — to provide a primary source description of his wartime activities, and to make it (as it should have been all along) part of future discussions of his role in the conflict.
Sons of German Veterans,1939-1945,???,I guess so..
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I’m new to this blog…
“neo-confederate”? WTH?
Obviously I’ve got a lot of catching up to do…
I told you Josephine…you cannot post here any longer.
does nelson appear on any rolls for drawing rations, pay or clothing?
all armies require so much paperwork for these rather mundane items that they should appear many times…
There is no compiled service record (CSR) for Nelson at NARA, which is where those materials are indexed. There are records for both the men who attested his pension application, his former master, Private E. R. Oldham, and First Sergeant T. A. Walker, both of Co. M.
I should have added — the absence of a CSR for Nelson does not definitively disprove claims made that he was appointed chaplain, or (according to some websites) held the rank of private, but it is a notable absence, given that records of other men who knew him at the time are present.
The absence of a CSR is, however, entirely consistent with Nelson’s own affidavit that he was a personal servant and cook to individual soldiers in that regiment.
I would guess his owner would have been responsible for those things..